Is grid connectivity inverter really worth it? | DIY Solar Power Forum

Alkaline

Solar Wizard

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Orange, Tx

• Aug 9,

• #1

The inverters that have grid connectivity, are they worth having? If you are never planning on selling back to the utility company but instead just have a transfer switch / sub panel to power your house?

The price difference is substantial, so if you are not planning on connecting to the grid should you still get a on-grid inverter?

Texas-Mark

Solar Wizard

Joined

Aug 4,

Messages

1,925

• Aug 9,

• #2

If you don't want to sell back, you can still offset your grid usage. No need for transfer switches if that is the goal. If you are not going to be connected to the grid at all, then no, you don't need it.

timselectric

If I can do it, you can do it.

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• Aug 9,

• #3

I don't want to pay for features that I won't be using.

Watts Happening

I call it like I see it.

Joined

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881

• Aug 9,

• #4

I don't want to pay for features that I won't be using.

Agreed.

But I do enjoy grid pass through/grid assist. Clearly this depends on your setup and intentions, but for me it’s real nice to have

timselectric

If I can do it, you can do it.

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• Aug 9,

• #5

I have my own version of grid assist.
A Chargeverter.

Zwy

Emperor Of Solar

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Timbuktu, IA

• Aug 9,

• #6

The inverters that have grid connectivity, are they worth having? If you are never planning on selling back to the utility company but instead just have a transfer switch / sub panel to power your house?

The price difference is substantial, so if you are not planning on connecting to the grid should you still get a on-grid inverter?

It's grid assist they want so they can start up larger loads. Usually the battery bank can't handle the surge.

Some of these people must have 20 HP motors in their basement running a line drive as I can't fathom needing that much power in a residential house. I can easily run anything in my house. We just don't run everything at once.

My shop is another matter, motors of all sizes to start/run. There is a way around that too and run strictly off solar.

Watts Happening

I call it like I see it.

Joined

May 3,

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881

• Aug 9,

• #7

I have my own version of grid assist.
A Chargeverter.

I love mine. Only argument would be that it depends on just how much grid assist you need.

IE, you want to run a big welder or (insert large load here) that your inverter can’t handle.

That’s getting a bit beyond the scope of the question, but I do think it’s worth noting you have to look at turn key cost of either setup. Regular inverter + chargeverter may begin approaching cost of the inverter you were trying to avoid in the first place.

cs

Solar Wizard

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4,025

• Aug 9,

• #8

I have my own version of grid assist.
A Chargeverter.

Did they ever make it so it can be set to a certain float voltage and be left there? I wouldn't necessarily want it to charge my batteries to full if left alone, just hold the line so to speak.

Watts Happening

I call it like I see it.

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881

• Aug 9,

• #9

It's grid assist they want so they can start up larger loads. Usually the battery bank can't handle the surge.

Some of these people must have 20 HP motors in their basement running a line drive as I can't fathom needing that much power in a residential house. I can easily run anything in my house. We just don't run everything at once.

My shop is another matter, motors of all sizes to start/run. There is a way around that too and run strictly off solar.

You must not be married.

I just replaced a perfectly good electric dryer with a gas version, simply so I didn’t have to break down the how/why for my wife.

Clearance price $400 LG with smart features felt cheaper an easier. Hell I’d happily spend $400 to avoid the look on her face when I say to only dry clothes at certain times

cs

Solar Wizard

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4,025

• Aug 9,

• #10

You must not be married.

I just replaced a perfectly good electric dryer with a gas version, simply so I didn’t have to break down the how/why for my wife.

Clearance price $400 LG with smart features felt cheaper an easier. Hell I’d happily spend $400 to avoid the look on her face when I say to only dry clothes at certain times

Just hook up an inverter and batteries right next to the electric drier, with a battery meter on it. Tell her she can run the dryer until the battery meter goes to zero.

timselectric

If I can do it, you can do it.

Joined

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27,096

• Aug 9,

• #11

Did they ever make it so it can be set to a certain float voltage and be left there? I wouldn't necessarily want it to charge my batteries to full if left alone, just hold the line so to speak.

It's always been that way.
That's how I use it. (Or will, if I ever need to)

timselectric

If I can do it, you can do it.

Joined

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27,096

• Aug 9,

• #12

I love mine. Only argument would be that it depends on just how much grid assist you need.

IE, you want to run a big welder or (insert large load here) that your inverter can’t handle.

That’s getting a bit beyond the scope of the question, but I do think it’s worth noting you have to look at turn key cost of either setup. Regular inverter + chargeverter may begin approaching cost of the inverter you were trying to avoid in the first place.

I don't need it for surges. Although it would help for that if the battery is low.

cs

Solar Wizard

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• Aug 9,

• #13

It's always been that way.
That's how I use it. (Or will, if I ever need to)

I had asked them way back when it first came out, here on the forum, if it could be set to a certain voltage...

I looked it up, I asked if it could be set to a constant voltage power supply mode.. and was told by James that it couldn't.

So you're saying it has enough configurable settings that you can "essentially" set it like a power supply?

timselectric

If I can do it, you can do it.

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• Aug 9,

• #14

I had asked them way back when it first came out, here on the forum, if it could be set to a certain voltage...

I looked it up, I asked if it could be set to a constant voltage power supply mode.. and was told by James that it couldn't.

So you're saying it has enough configurable settings that you can "essentially" set it like a power supply?

Yes
It has just two simple settings.
Voltage and amperage.

cs

Solar Wizard

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4,025

• Aug 9,

• #15

Yes
It has just two simple settings.
Voltage and amperage.

Nice, maybe if current connected carries them, I can get one someday.

Alkaline

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Orange, Tx

• Aug 9,

• #16

I have my own version of grid assist.
A Chargeverter.

That is what I'm thinking too just have some standby charger not mess with grid at all.

Farm Boy

Solar Addict

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596

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ohio

• Aug 9,

• #17

The inverters that have grid connectivity, are they worth having? If you are never planning on selling back to the utility company but instead just have a transfer switch / sub panel to power your house?

The price difference is substantial, so if you are not planning on connecting to the grid should you still get a on-grid inverte

I'm off grid, I bought a Hybrid. Mostly for the 10 year warranty with us support. I have not seen any off grid all in 1 inverters out there that offer that. I'm sure some one can find one may be that would be the one you get. Last edited: Aug 9,

SilverbackMP

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1,004

• Aug 9,

• #18

It's grid assist they want so they can start up larger loads. Usually the battery bank can't handle the surge.

Some of these people must have 20 HP motors in their basement running a line drive as I can't fathom needing that much power in a residential house. I can easily run anything in my house. We just don't run everything at once.

My shop is another matter, motors of all sizes to start/run. There is a way around that too and run strictly off solar.

I’d like to run a 50 Amp plasma cutter and a 5 hp air compressor plus other loads at the same time in my shop. Or a 20 inch planner and 3 hp dust collector. I’d take grid pass through if I could get it.

I am hoping my 4x Sunny Islands will pass through a good chunk of the 100 Amps from my 25KW generator. Still unclear on how much it will do so. I don’t mind running the generator for the occasional job.

On the plasma cutter part, if I find myself using it a bunch, I’ll probably buy a Hypertherm 30 Air which the Sunny Islands should have no problems with on their own.

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

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23,711

• Aug 9,

• #19

GT PV is the simplest and cheapest system.
If net metering is available, that is cheaper than batteries, more efficient, and has vastly more capacity.
Even if you receive zero credit, being allowed to backfeed simplifies system. You can over-panel with cheap PV panels and throw away power you don't use.

Without some sort if credit, you probably want batteries. But just 25% credit and you're better off buying more panels and forgoing battery.

If your grid connection is 200A, you've got 48kW available and almost 250kW for motor starting surge.
It would take a lot of battery and inverter to come close to that.

But it does depend on your application, purpose, loads.

Between off-grid and grid-interactive, price difference could be some sensors and firmware. Beyond that, quality and certifications. Maybe recovering cost of more extensive UL testing is the primary thing you're paying for but don't need.

If not backfeeding at all, do like I do and buy old model Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys at liquidation prices. At least for larger systems; small ones can be built cheaper with other brands.

Brett V

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Flyover Country

• Aug 9,

• #20

Since I have net metering, I went with 2 separate systems. I use the off grid system as much as I can and build up my kwh bank on the grid for cloudy days. The downside is 9kw of PV going unused when the grid is down. If I could start over, I'd probably get a hybrid inverter and let those 29 solar panels on the roof be available whenever I want them.

Net zero

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North Texas

• Aug 9,

• #21

Without some sort if credit, you probably want batteries. But just 25% credit and you're better off buying more panels and forgoing battery.

Do you mind sharing some math on this?

Brett V

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Flyover Country

• Aug 9,

• #22

I will add that based on what I can do with the 3kw of ground mount panels I put in for the off grid system, I'm pretty confident that if I could utilize the 9kw of grid tie panels on the roof for whatever I want, I could have a very comfortable life off grid in a SHTF scenario.

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!

Joined

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23,711

• Aug 9,

• #23

Do you mind sharing some math on this?

GT PV hardware costs about $1.00/W, maybe $1.10/W with RSD.
5 hours effective sun per day, I come up with $0.025 to $0.03/kWh amortized over 20 years.

I can overpanel GT PV for just the cost of PV panels and hardware, maybe $0.25 to $0.50/W. Multiple orientations, less clipping.


Lithium batteries look like they cost at least around $0.05/kWh over their cycle life, plus inverters that work with them cost more (unless a hybrid that is also your PV inverter.)

So I might as well add up to 200% maybe 300% more GT PV, no more than the cost of batteries.
Desire for grid-backup of course changes the equation.

If you pay for turnkey GT PV install, cost is more like $2 to $4/W, so battery may be more attractive in comparison.
Much less work, I think. Especially if just a Powerwall or similar AC coupled battery.

Watch out for bad panels that degrade, however. Counting on 25 to 40 year life. Or at least 20 year with above math.

DIYrich

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New England, USA

• Aug 10,

• #24

I will add that based on what I can do with the 3kw of ground mount panels I put in for the off grid system, I'm pretty confident that if I could utilize the 9kw of grid tie panels on the roof for whatever I want, I could have a very comfortable life off grid in a SHTF scenario.

You could put in a switch to move the power from the grid system to the off-grid.

Solar

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